Otis: 0:00
Hey, welcome to The Cam & Otis Show. We really appreciate your support. We appreciate the fact that you've taken some time out of your busy life to listen to our show. And, you know, if you're enjoying the show and you learn a little bit, we'd love to hear from you on And also learn how we could make it better show for you. And if you do like our show, please share it. And this week we have ah, friend of mine and a coaching associate, Deborah Houston on with this Debra and I both coach for a sup, a start up business based in Boston area, and Deborah's in the Boston area right now also. So I'm going to describe her as a wicked good coach. And one of the things that we spent some time jumping around talking about diving into is the gifted out liar and what that means, who that is. And then how you as a leader can tap into that skill set to end what to do if you are a gifted outlier and how you congrats 00 and use that talent to create more success. So now here's cama notice with the show way tried CBD as a product to help you with those aches and pains and sore muscles and arthritis in your joints. It's time to do that. And one of the products that I'm a fan of and I've been using now for just shy of a year, is mashed its military and athletic strength. Hemp oil. It's a high quality cannabinoid that they put in the in the product And what it What it does is it helps mitigate pain, mitigates swelling and and rejuvenate some old crusty joints like I have next surgery last year I've been using It is part of my recovery plan and ongoing maintenance plan, if you will, so that I can continue to do what I love to do. That which is get up and work out every day. And Nash has has been a big part of that ongoing path that I enjoy and enabling me to continue to work out like I like. I love to do so check out mash hemp dot com. If you're a veteran or first responder, give a heck of a discounts of goto mashup dot com. Hey, welcome to the camera. No to show. Uh, great that you have joined us today. Got a friend of mine and coaching associate Deborah Houston. Uh, and coming from beautiful, beautiful Boston area. And, man, we were talking about that earlier, and they have agreed to have you on the show today.
Deborah Huisken: 3:02
Thank you. Nobody would be here.
Otis: 3:04
Yeah, but, you know, I wanna I wanna jump into something that you and I talked about once before, and I just love it. It It's the gifted outlier. And I just love that part of your business and your line and thought process and really like toe talk about that. Some, if you can kind of define that for said be great.
Deborah Huisken: 3:27
So how fun. I love that topic. Thank you. Um, so you know, it's interesting cause I do a call myself When I was just talking to some people that I used to work with in the early days of my career, and it reminded me when I first started working in business, I worked with millimeter wave electronic component manufacturer, and we were talking about world class physicists and scientists and and I was totally intimidated, and they got me working on proposals with them. And I'm looking at this very heavy academic material, and I'm thinking, What the heck are they talking about? And finally I went to one of them one day and I said, Tell me what you mean here and they put it into, like, layman's terms. I'm like, Oh, is that what you're talking about? And what it made me realize is that these very, very bright people needed to be translated in academia. You have, for instance, you have people who incredibly bright but there theoretically bright and they don't know how to communicate with the rest of the world. That's where it kind of started. And then the next company I went to, I was working in a software company, and they were again very bright people. But fortunately the company was able to sort of corral that intelligence because it was a small company. And then when we were growing and so everybody had to kind of pitch in. What I started to realize after I left those companies and and went into larger organizations is that there are a lot of really bright people who see things that other people can't see who understand how things work, who question who bring in stuff from crazy places that you'd never think it was related. And then they put it all together for a year, like oh, course I'm not make sense, but you'd never would have thought of it. And to me, those are the gifted outliers, those of the people who see things, understand things, create things, identified problems and solve them just because they love identifying problems and they love solving them. And a lot of times organizations don't know how to work with those people. H r. You know, they walk into an HR persons office in the HR. Person is wondering, Who is this person? Are they for real? What is it that there was that they can offer and will they fit in the organization? Because organizations need to put people into roles, make get people toe, move in the same direction, and the larger the organization There were pressure. There is because if you have an outlier, it disrupts things, and it means things aren't gonna be smooth, and they're not gonna be scalable. And that's what corporations are all about, Lord larger. The larger they get, the more there about that. And yet those outliers, those people who can see and who you know, it might be the rock in the stream that makes everything have to go around him, right? Those people actually concede east. See things coming and consol problems that other people in the organization can't cause they're just not thinking that way. They're focused on their goal and they're not looking at. Oh, wait a minute. You is This fire is coming in sideways. What are we gonna do about that? Right? There's a wonderful cartoon I just I saw have all these people sitting around our board table saying, Yeah, we're going to be great. We're gonna be growing at this rate in this, you know, everything's going fine. We're headed. And here's this big, you know, ball coming at them, gonna wipe him right out cause they not looking, they're not gonna be able to see it. But gifted out liars are the kind of people that will see it coming, and it will ask the tough questions. But very often, if they're trying to fit into an organization, they'll get squashed. And I like to try to find those people and help them understand? Because sometimes these folks have never really understood this about themselves. Have never really understood why they never quite got along or they just get demoralized. You know, they're trying to fit in with people, are they for years. They realize that I'm gonna have to play the game, or I'm gonna have to just shut up and keep my head underneath the parapet. Okay? If I want to earn good money that I'm gonna have to just kind of go along with the crowd So they get into an organization and they hide in the corner, they don't participate at the level that they're capable of because they know that it's too hard a fight, especially if they feel like they're the only one if they haven't found anybody else on their team. So I try to get on their team because I think they're valuable.
Camden: 8:03
Well, I think when you guys were talking through that, what comes to mind for me, largely And of course, this is my favorite buzzword because he had still did for me as a rugby coaches communication, and it kind of goes down to that kind of encoding decoding process of you have Teoh, even especially to take their easy example of the super smart physicists. They have to be able Teoh are you have to have someone on her team who can re communicate the really smart, really big picture, crazy stuff they're talking about, or really small picture stuff that they're talking about and being able to apply that everybody else because that that lapse in communication is where all of those gaps you're talking about come from. So, Deborah, how would you as as, ah, team leader or as a member of that team, how would you work with someone to get them to try to understand that encoding and decoding process that they're looking at as far as communication? I
Deborah Huisken: 8:53
mean, if I was a team leader and they were on my team, and to be honest, I have not done a lot of that kind of work. I'm a bit of a gifted alarm myself, not gifted, but out there for sure. Um so I I think I'd rather come out that as a coach, so as a coach, what I try to do is I try to listen for what is this person talking about what's underneath, what this person is talking about, that they're not saying, What's the conversation that they really want to have that they aren't talking about. And I try to go for that conversation, and if we start talking about that stuff, I try to reflect back to my client. Here's what I'm hearing you say If this is accurate, what are you doing about this? So let me give you an example. I met this woman. We were going into Heathrow Airport on the tube, and it was this one of those crazy snowstorm things and I stumbled onto the tube, my baggage because I was flying out and she was kind enough to smile at Mia's. I made this ruckus on the tube, so I started chatting with her and turned out she was American. Turned out that she was going back to this big job that she had, and she was telling me about what she was doing. She was working for one of the largest financial institutions in the world. You would recognize the name if I gave it to you, and she had put together a center of excellence around cybersecurity. And as she's telling me what she was doing because I've worked in the software industry. I knew what she was talking about was really important, especially given the nature of the organization she was talking about. This was many years ago now, and I also. And if she was talking about it, I'm saying, Wow, that's, you know, impressive, really important. And she's like, Yeah, well, yeah, actually be won an award. And I was like, Wow, great, good for you. And she said, Yeah, my boss accepted it for me. It's like, Why, Joe? Well, you know, that's the way it works. It is OK for me and then she's talking about the next steps and, you know, and I'm like, Wow, that's really excited. How you gonna do that? She said, Well, I'm not sure we're going to cause you know, my boss doesn't really going to get it. And he doesn't. And I'm like, OK, you need to work with me because what I heard was she had one of those bosses, and it turned out that this was true. Unfortunately, who was trying to play the politics, trying to figure out how he was going to get what he wanted to go in the organization completely, ignoring the importance of the project that she was working on for the whole organization. Because she was, he was focused on his future. So I helped her first of all, recognize the value of what she was contributing and how important was which she knew. And that's why she put the organization together. That's why she did the work to make the centre of excellence happen. But what she hadn't kind of figured out Waas. It's more than than you. It's more than your vision. This is important not only to your company, but to all of those clients that that company is serving all the other organizations that are interacting, etcetera, etcetera. And once she kind of that understood the value that she was bringing. She could then start to think about OK, so this is bigger than what's between me and my boss, and then she could start. You know, I said So where else in the organization do you know people? Oh, well, you know, I've been in this organization for years. I know they are X y Z, and as we started talking about, she's like, Oh, yeah, I could go to that guy and I could go to her. She gets it, and we started to put together a game plan for how to get this really important project out from under the boss that didn't get it and get it the recognition that it that it needed. But she needed to do that work for herself all and I just became the catalyst to help her first of all, communicate internally and understand herself and then understand how to communicate externally. The larger vision that she was able to see Does that make sense and answer your question a little bit?
Camden: 12:53
Yeah, definitely, because, I mean, you hit it right on the head. It's about being ableto have it way talk in coding decoding. I know there's a little chart that comes to mind for me, but it's
Deborah Huisken: 13:03
a person
Camden: 13:03
A is saying something and that something makes a lot of sense. That person had their great idea and it's applicable and it's you know, it could be successful and there's all these different applications for it, but it doesn't do any good if Person be isn't on the same page, and I think that's what it really comes down to, and whether it's, you know, rewarding and doubling down the language and cutting out some jargon or whatever it is, you have to be able to get that communication to go otherwise or even to your example. Also even maybe talk to someone else. If your bosses and giving it at all. And there's someone else in your company, you can talk to the matter path.
Deborah Huisken: 13:35
Yes, yeah, and you know, maybe her boss was just in the wrong position. I don't know, but for whatever reason, when someone's getting in the way, you have to figure out. So what is that stake hold? What is that person need? And are you going to be able to help them get it? Or if not, do you need to go around them?
Otis: 13:51
That that's it's great. I love the plan that you helped to put together because, you know, I have people come up to may know quite often and say, Well, man leadership in this organization and I'm in is blah, blah, And how do I change that? Or so you know, it's that that's awesome, that you're able to do that, What I'm really curious about as you were talking is how do I know Or how does somebody else know? How did you know? Now that you are that gifted out wire what you know, for somebody is listening there, scratching their head, going while that's pretty cool. She helped out this Lady Schmidt on the tube. Does that fit? May. So how does somebody know there are gifted outlaw?
Deborah Huisken: 14:31
Uh, you know, for me, it's kind of an intuitive thing, but, you know, I pick it up when I'm talking to somebody. But I think for people listening, if you're the kind of person that sees things coming before other people and you know your you say, Oh, yeah, you know, we should think about X y Z. Everybody kind of looks at you and goes and then keeps on with their conversation and then a week a month later is some other bright spark, and the group says, Oh, you know, we should do X Y Z, and you're like I said that a month ago. Okay, that's one clue See coming before other people see them. And it may take other people a while to accommodate their thinking, to absorb you know what you're saying? And kind of put the pieces together that you just made an intuitive hit with. I had a teacher once say to me, You know, you go toe from 8 a.m. without even thinking about it, and you forget that everybody else is going a B C d e because you're already over at him. So that's one way to think about it. Another way is you know, maybe you march to a different drummer. Um, you know, you've always been the kind of person who kind of feels a bit like an outsider, and I kind of wondered, How does everybody else know this stuff for, like, how does how does everybody else feel comfortable doing this community thing that I just don't get it? Um, What I'm trying to think of some of the other on, and I think very often they're very bright people who, you know, they get hired for being very bright. They get hired for being what they're capable of doing. But then the organization just doesn't seem to know what to do with them. And that's a really sad When I actually had someone say exactly those words to me. They wanted to hire the best and brightest. They got us here and now they don't know what to do with us. And it broke my heart because talking to her, there was so much energy and so much passion and so much vision that she had. I didn't understand half of what she was saying, but I could feel the energy in which it was setting and where she wanted to go with it. And her organization did not know what to do with her. And it was It was hard.
Camden: 16:39
Dad, I'll set you up here. Here's a fastball right over the plate, and I hope I hope it's where you're going with it, too, because it's something we've talked about a lot that you have this desert diversity of opinion, diversity of thought, diversity of background, all these different types of stuff. And it could be so useful to an organization. If you're all working towards the same goal in a big piece of that Dad is having everyone in the right seat on the bus, right?
Otis: 17:01
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, one of my favorite things out of Jim Collins book Good to great is is that and you know, a lot of times what happens, though, is organizations will have like one. You're just describing that this big visions like, man, we're gonna do all this stuff and they go out and they find the people when they invest and they as a business and they're like, man work, we're doing it. Then all the sudden, it's like, Oh, my God, that these people are really coming up with some ideas That's scary. And and and then they get no, Neither they get afraid of taking that leap into that that visionary sort of thing or just Aziz just is often, I think, is they're not secure in their ability to lead. So it's like, yeah, that that that that that's not a good idea and they squash those things. And what happens is in a team organization, that team's ability to innovate just with the number that there's probably some mathematic formula there. Camden Mr Economists, that you need you to figure out that with the number of times I squash a good idea X that's X than my my correlation with innovation. Why goes down with the number of times I squashed. I'm sure there's some.
Camden: 18:23
Oh yeah, for every time you squash a good idea, I'm sure your innovation drops by some marginal number. I think that's it. There's a There's a thesis when I go back to school, write that one down, Ugo.
Deborah Huisken: 18:34
Well, wouldn't you make sure you look at Kodak because they were one of the organizations that had this happened to them? And in fact, I know a guy who became Kodak asked him to head up the first office of innovation because they knew that they had a lot of right people. They knew that there were things, you know, like the kind of ideas that created the Post It note. They knew they had that kind of capacity in the organization, but they didn't know how to tap it. So they asked my friend Bob Rose and fell to set up this office of organise of ah, innovation, which he did. And what he realized was that the big piece was people not understanding their preferences the way they look at the world, the way they engage with other people. And because of that, that disconnect in terms of communication was exacerbated and So he ended up and he end up leaving Kodak, of course, because I didn't really have a choice and starting his own organization. And he created and something called the SP that innovation, strengths, preferences indicator and using that to help people on teams. So if I'm working with a team, I'm gonna be facilitating a team. I'm not gonna be claiming that team. I'm gonna be trying to get people to talk to each other across these differences, and it's been so interesting. I you know, when I think about some of the people I've worked with, one guy took the end of took the is be with me. He was a client and when he took it, he realized that he had to different parts of his personality in one part of his personality. This be is based on builder pioneer, and I'm sorry builder Bridger Pioneer and in one part of this area of thinking in terms of ideas, he was totally a pioneer in terms of the way he processed and worked with those ideas and put processes together. He was totally a builder, so he had parts of his personality that were diametrically opposed to each other, which for people around him, first of all, he didn't understand that about himself until he did this assessment. For the people around him, it was confusing because on the one hand, he's coming up with all these wild and crazy ideas. And on the other hand, he's being, you know, like, really, um, conservative and risk averse in terms of how he wanted to implement them and set the processes up, and they didn't understand it. And I talked to his boss when we did the assessment. He was kind of on his last legs with this organization, and it turned out they let him go right around the time that we got the results of the SP. But we had already set up for me to talk to his boss. So I went in to talk to her, just a I was mostly curious from myself, and when I explained to her his profile, she said, Boy, if only I'd known this before when I first came in here cause she was a new boss and she had inherited him, she said. That might have I don't know if it would have let me keep him. But it might have helped because we didn't understand how to work with him and people didn't trust him. Once he knew that about himself, then he could start to look at what aspects of himself. He wanted to develop what he wanted. To learn more about how to do how we wanted to learn to communicate with people, how to spot the people, that he would struggle with him and when they would struggle with him when he was doing his thing. Um and so he could learn how to have that communication that you're talking about.
Camden: 21:54
I think part of that and of course, it really goes back to knowing yourself is being able Teoh. I mean, So when I when I look at this as faras innovation and tapping in the innovation and all of those type of things, it's really coming down to knowing yourself and then turn we've used before, which is follow your genius. You're good at something for a reason, and you should keep working on that. And for some people, it's unclear where that goes. But if you really focus on and you focus where your skills are, you're gonna find that innovations and you're gonna find those new ideas. But then you have to be able to communicate. And I think this is kind of the interesting thing where you have to be able to switch gears. Not everyone can switch gears like this. I think. I think not that I would do anything overly complicated, I don't think. But I'm good at switching gears like this. I love all. I have a 1,000,000 analogies I could use to describe my crazy ideas when I talk about stuff. But without those analogies, you're gonna lose people. And without those analogies and different ways of communicating, you're not able to get your team on the same page for your idea. Because when you don't have a true understanding what you're talking about, then you're not going to be able to implement the properly. There's plenty of great ideas for innovation that aren't good right now, and that should be, you know, put on the backburner for a little bit later. But you have to build, understand what the idea is of what the impact of that idea is before you decide where to put it,
Deborah Huisken: 23:10
and when people are ready to hear that idea actually had another colleague of mine who is totally an innovator. She's, I think, she said. You know, most companies don't want innovation because it's disruptive and they don't want to have their plans disrupted. They're not ready for it. So you have to know when the organization is ready and capable for it. And you know where they are in sort of the life cycle of the organization. And do they have the kind of leadership that's capable of recognizing the innovation and recognizing how to bring it in? How to time it, how toe weave it into their You know, there's, I don't know if you've ever seen that chart of, You know, when a company finds a new product, a new innovation and it's it's being implemented and then it peaks and then it starts to decline. What, you want to get the next product, starting before the declines, that you have a continuing right. Yet you can succeed
Camden: 24:05
that Czar sigmoid curves.
Otis: 24:08
Canada has got his sigmoid curve things like Don't tell the sigmoid curve.
Camden: 24:13
Yeah, so it goes really just performance in general. But it's exactly what you're describing there, where and when you reach your peak of performance, when you reach your peak of ability, that means you're going down after that. And so you have to be able to anticipate that and find whatever kind of mechanism it is that could jump you over to that next curve. The example we took it from originally goes back toe the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team, and they talk about how if they're performing at the highest level, they know they have to go down. So it's OK. What strategy can be changed? How could we change our workouts? How can we change our practice to jump us over that next curve and keep performing? Or Hey, which player do I need to pull off the field and go bench because he's going to start to beat playing terribly in a few minutes?
Deborah Huisken: 24:53
You know
Camden: 24:54
all of those types of things, and I think it applies exactly what you're
Otis: 24:56
saying. I want I want to flip it. No, Deborah. So we've talked about the individual, so now as the owner, or, you know, entrepreneur or manager or whatever, call it person has got that. That's somebody that gifted Ah, in a gifted out liar on their team. How can they? You reap the rewards, Quite frankly, that talent and that skill set on their team and really accelerate
Deborah Huisken: 25:25
right? Well, I think there's a few ways. I mean, the first thing is to recognize that they are a gift, not a not a not a problem, because I think that it's tempting to want to say, you know, just fit in with everybody else. Your great I love you. You know I love what you do, but you've just got to fit in. Well, sometimes it's not that easy. And it may be that you need to bring in 1/3 party like a coach to help help translate between between you and that person between that person and the rest of the team, get people to sit down and have conversations around who is on the team and how can we best use them? I didn't miss B one time with the team actually out of M I. T. And we it was such an interesting experience because we ended up sitting around the table on doing a debrief with everybody on the team and as we're going through it this one person was asking a question, and everybody on the in the room laughed. And I'm like, Why you guys laughing? And they said, because we just at the penny just dropped. Now we understand why you get along with the guy who set up this organization, who none of us understand. None of us know how to work with. He drives us crazy because he's always out there with all these crazy ideas, and we don't know how to rein him in and we're trying to implement and we don't know what we're implementing. And you, this one person over sending over in the corner who was an intern, by the way. Get him and he can talk to you and the rest of us don't have a clue. So it's It's understood it's finding the way to communicate. And if you can't do it yourself is, is this person's boss find someone who can help them help you help? That person is one of the first way. So I would say, and as much as anything, talk to them. I try to understand where they're coming from and what motivates them and what excites and interests them Ultimately, some people may not make it in in the organization, and your best bet may be to help them find the another right position for them, but still keep the lines of communication open so that you can continue to tap into their expertise and their gifts and their gifts in their new organization, but not have to be struggling with fitting them into. So I think there's a continuum. I think it's everything from you may be a simple conversation with them. It may be that you need to have a coach. It may need that you need me, that you need to have team discussions and really work together as a group, or it may be that they need to leave the organization. But I believe in a way that you can continue to tap into what they offer because it's the best. It's to the greatest good of everyone concerned. And if they don't fit in your organization, why, why torment everybody?
Otis: 28:19
Yeah, that's, ah, that Oh, that. But that last part is so critical, and I have dealt with the number of leaders and at various levels and organizations, even in the military. Where is like a man. If the guide isn't a good bit than help him, help him go somewhere else and succeed, You know? I mean, you know, people get so wrapped up in that and and in that, and they develop this passive aggressive relationship, it's really kind of like, man, is that really serving? You and your team? Well, toe have that sort of relationship with that team member. No, I you know what I want? I want to shift gears, though, because I'm fascinated with with the Deborah history from bus driver to mechanic to the dance and I just to a blank on the dance name. Uh, Lindy hop. Yes, which is Oh, my gosh. Uh, yeah. If you've never seen Lindy hop you got, you gotta look up some videos of learned iapa, cas,
Deborah Huisken: 29:24
tell us apart.
Otis: 29:25
Yeah, that's the one you want to work out. Check out, Lindy. And I'm surprised there's not Mawr workout video, Lindy hop workout videos, because that's a oh, man. But what I'm curious about because I just like that so fun to go from mechanic to dance and coach and techie owing their what's What's the theme that the Deborah theme. That's kind of carried you through all those all as different things.
Deborah Huisken: 29:59
That's an interesting question. Um, well, I You know, when I when I was young, before I learned to drive a car and as I was learning to drive a car, I never wanted to be one of those people who got taken advantage off, you know, when they went into the car mechanic shop and I kept hearing about these stories. So I wanted to learn about how cars worth. And I love to drive. I love exploring going out. So when I found out that there were buses, uh, driving around university and that I might be able to drive one of them And at that point, I didn't have a car, I thought, Cool, you know, sign up. Um, it turned out, and also as a woman, especially growing up in the fifties, you know, I was born in the fifties, so growing up in the sixties and seventies, there was a lot of making, you know, making way for women to do stuff that they weren't supposed to be able to do. I was one of the first when they first started having women pumping gas. I was one of those women and I had the guy that said, Oh, no, darlin, I'll take care of it. Don't worry. And ended up putting ah, boil in his radiator because he put the oil in the line Oh, so I just had to watch and say, OK, don't We don't take care anyways, So um yes, I e think because I because I grew up as a woman wanting to do things that women weren't supposed to want to do. I was a tomboy, and I wanted to drive buses that I wanted to learn about cars. I learned a lot that way. And then I fell into this job, um, the millimeter wave electronic component manufacturing job that was supposed to be a part time temporary summer job. But I was so fascinated by the guy that started the company and he became a good friend and he actually became one of my clients, which was amazing for me, cause I just I had him on such a pedestal, and it made me realize that the work that I was doing was good work because someone who I admired so much got a lot out of it, and it made you want to keep it, keep doing it. But I also had to figure out what was my way of doing it. Now, where does the Lindy hop fit in? Well, interestingly, You know, um, I started dancing after I went through a divorce, and I was watching these people do this amazing to dance together. And I said, you know, aren't they wonderful? They probably been married three years and look how well they know each other. And they song ended and they stopped and they went off and did the same thing with other partners. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, you could do that. I want to do that. And the, you know, the swirly skirts that just all caught my attention. So I got into It was a heart thing that got me into the dance as I got to know the originators of the dance, which we again, I was just fortunate in terms of timing. These were amazing people who, you know, grew up many of them in Harlem. Um, the big bands were starting to happen when when Lindy Hop got started in the twenties and thirties and people who, you know we're being discounted and understood under used and underutilized and, you know, told they were stupid in many respects or they were somehow less than just because of the color of their skin. I'm sorry. I've never understood that, Um, created this amazing music, this amazing dance that spoke to my heart and so was I when I later found the Lindy Hop, because when I first started doing that partner dance, it was just a partner dance when I found Lindy Hop. Lindy Hop is much more complex. The steps, it's it's about innovation. It's about really connecting and communicating with your partner with the musicians and that to me, that level of communication beyond words. It's about music. It's about the way your body is moving. It's about noticing what's happening around you. It's about I was noticing what you're feeling, what you're experiencing. That is a level of communication that just taught me so much about leading and about following and about how important both roles are and how ah followers, a good followers, not just someone who blindly goes along behind a leader. It's someone who sees what the leader is dealing with and finds the places to support them. And I'm sure you know this Cam is a military person. You need strong followers to be a strong leader. And so for me, this it's somehow maybe it's beings on the outside looking in. I've had to figure out where I can connect and communicate with people. But that's as much as I can tell you. Is I? As I can figure, I
Camden: 34:36
think that's great. I mean, even I'm not even going to try to act like I have any sort of dancing skill. I know that I do enjoy, and I used to go dance in some do swing dancing and all that. But that was one of the things I remember here and very early on for the people who were really good at it was that you have to be able to do both, and that how insightful that is into the dance is a skill that you're getting better at to be a follow and to be a lead to be able to alternate back and forth because that's what you really have to be able to do because of your understanding. It and I think I think you're completely right. That ties right into the team analogy of you. You're not going to be a good leader if you don't understand your followers. I think that's just rial real simple, right?
Deborah Huisken: 35:13
Yes, absolutely. He meant
Otis: 35:15
well, No, I love the fart. The that. The fact that it's your heart pulling you fool pulled you into that and that, That's that filling your cup up. And so how do you How do you sustain that? You're still dancing, right? You still go out and do that. And then how do you bring that back to your clients, if you will.
Deborah Huisken: 35:38
I'm not dancing at the moment, obviously, because of covert 19 but I'm less that I have, Ah, an international network of amazing people who, interestingly, the kind of people that are attracted to Lindy Hop are very often some of these kind of people that I'm talking about very bright people. A lot of engineers, a lot of is funny when they're trying to learn it because they're like women isn't one to r 23 and it's like just let it go. And just so it's the whole like you eat e que thing which also plays into this. The emotional intelligence for system intellectual intelligence. Um, but anyways, to get back to the question, uh, lots of people are doing stuff online. And so I'm staying connected with the energy and the heart and the creativity and the innovation of these amazing people, who for them there they're way of expressing innovation is through dance. Um, and being able to translate that into the work that I do with my clients when I started coaching and, you know, it is an early practitioner. I had learned some very good skills and some very good tools, and I was using those. But much like the dance I needed to find my own tools, my own steps, my own way of using these. These things that I was being given had been given. And when I the first time I ran into a snag with a client and I thought through Okay, what does this client really want? And I was able to ask that the question or have the discussion that said where I heard my client go Oh, no, I get it. I was hooked that it was a hard thing again. It was like to be able to help someone have that kind of realization to be ableto have that kind of an impact in someone's life just by asking question. And I've always been curious. My dad said to me when time you asked him any questions? Well, it turns out that's what my job is, and I love it. So
Camden: 37:41
that's great. Well, one other thing, as we've been kind of tiptoeing around about how to how to foster innovation in those type of things, what I've been really thinking about, as you talk about a little bit of analogy, the Lindy hopping and is that innovation through work concepts that really one of the best ways, as if you could write any sort of formula. Teoh give innovation. You know, that's one of those crazy things, anyway, but that's a whole other tangent. What, that really the best way to innovate? What you're doing is to get in the weeds and do the work. Now you have to be able to have the big picture mindset to step back out and look at things. But some of the best ways you figure out how to do stuff is because you're doing the work. Daddy and I have talked about this before that some of the most innovation that happens is happening in someone's garage somewhere. And it's because that guy or that gal has a problem and he solved or she solved it. And now and they're never going to sell about never, never gonna sell that fix. But they're in their innovating, and that's where most innovation happens, because it really just comes down to problem solving and making really making our lives easier, right? And you have to get into the weeds and you have to get into the work. You have to do the dance in order to get into that. You can't you can't become, You know you can't drop some new dance moves just because you watch somebody once. It's not gonna work because you're gonna step on each other's toes or something along those lines. You have to be able to in the end, there, doing the work that, hey, you know, let's get back out there again. I'm thinking, you know, let's try this move. I'm gonna spend your the other direction. This time let's see how that looks and that's where innovation comes from. Is that little bit of experimentation that you get when you come in and you actually do the work? And I think that ties back into what we were saying earlier. Follow your genius because if especially if you're one of those out liars that you have something that you're gifted and go do that and go working and follow that and working it every day, and that's where you're gonna get that genius. That's where you're gonna find that genius. Foster that innovation and really develop your way full,
Deborah Huisken: 39:40
especially if you have a passion for it. And the one thing I'm gonna add to what you just said, which was beautifully said is be willing to make mistakes because as dancers, you're going to step on each other's toes and you're going to do things that don't work. And in fact, sometimes the things that don't work when you're paying attention and when you're moving with the music, you can make that into a new move. And I can't tell you how many times I've been with you know, laughed with a partner on the dance floor up. Yep, there's another new move because I was starting to go in one direction and he or she was trying to make me go in a different direction and I realized as it was happening and they realized as it was happening, and hopefully we have had the skill to be able to adapt. Sometimes you don't you just end up laughing, but you have to be willing to fail. And this is really important, because if you think you're gonna always do, especially when you're innovating, if you think you're going to do new creative things and not fail, you're not doing new creative things. You're just doing the same thing over and over again. You're being safe, and a big piece of innovation is being able and willing to take risks. And part of taking risks is sometimes you're gonna fail. That's how you learn.
Camden: 40:43
And I think you know, that kind of goes into as we're talking about building a performance and things. It kind of goes into the concept of, ah, deliberate practice toe where you're pushing yourself and it's why deliver practices so tiring no matter what you're doing and whether it's a sport or any other thing, because you're pushing yourself beyond where your skill levels are. The challenge is greater than the skill, and that's gonna foster failure. But it's also gonna make you better. And that's that is the I mean the truest way again going back to visit. You know, if you can put these things into formula, Sister. My favorite stuff to Dio is that's how you can get better is you go in and you put in the hours until deliberate practice. People who had who deliberately practiced their art are better than people who dumped. It's just that simple, but you're completely right. The biggest piece of that is you have to be okay with the failure because you're gonna fail many, many time,
Deborah Huisken: 41:36
and you have to have the patients to keep going back and doing it over and over and over and over. You know, one of the reasons I don't teach your perform Lindy Hop is because I don't have that kind of patients. As much as I love the dance, I don't have the patients, and I realized that early on, which is why I stayed in business and not, you know, trying didn't try to become a teacher or whatever, cause I just knew I would never be able to do that. But I do love the dance and so allowing yourself to pull from the places that your heart sings when you're doing it. And this is another thing that I think is another way that I spot the gifted out letters to go back to. The earlier question you asked me is when I hear someone talking about something that their eyes light up or their voice starts to get go faster or they start to get more energy in their voice or they start to really get passionate about what they're talking about. That's where I have people looking. And many times as I'm working with people you know will be sort of going along and just, you know, feeling really depressed. And it's just not working and they don't know how to get out of their way. And so I'll ask a completely different question that might sound like it's coming out of nowhere. But if I can get someone to break away from, this is where I'm stuck and look at. Wait a minute. You know what I actually love going over here. And if we can follow that and find out where that passion is in them and how to tap that in them and then bring that back into whatever they think they're going to do next, that's when we start to get someplace
Otis: 43:07
that's awesome. And, you know, I gotta ask the obvious question, because with we've been talking about innovation and creating and all those sort of things, So what's what's your next step? What? Where you going with your business with dance? Dancy Star International And what's your innovation that's coming up? Never.
Deborah Huisken: 43:28
I knew you're gonna put me on the spot, feel it coming well, And you know it's interesting because this gifted outlier pieces actually the next piece for May. So I was thrilled when you made this the topic of this conversation because I haven't really had an opportunity to talk about it in this way. But I really I came up with the term, you know, sort of a combination of Daniel Goldman's I know. Um, Marcus Buckingham talked about out liars. I think he actually wrote a book called Out Liars and the Gift in this piece, which I came across many years ago, there was a guy Harvard at Harvard, Howard Gardner, that talked about different types of intelligences. And I came across him because of the woman that wrote a book called Gift of our Own Giftedness. And so for me, I've been exploring kind of playing with these ideas. Innovation. All of that kind of stuff has been kind of percolating for quite a while. And I when I came up with this idea of gifted out liars and started talking to people about it, I was surprised at how many people did what you did. You know, it was kind of like, as I start talking about, they're like, Oh, yeah, I know one of those I know those people and I've been hearing even people in corporations having that reaction. So it made me realize that I think I probably need to do something with this. So I'm in the middle of putting my website together. I'm just starting talk with people about it. I'm starting to think about how do I talk about this, and how do I reach more of these kind of people? Because the thing is, these air the tap, This is the talent that corporations hire. These are the high potential people that they hire. These are the people that that sometimes even get passed over. I was just talking with a very bright friend of mine who, you know he's retired, but he's bored. He's got this praying the size of a line, and it was huge. And he conduce these amazing things, and he now wants to go back into one of these large organizations. But, you know, trying to get through HR with a resume doing a job search when you're over 65 Forget it. And there's no way it's like this Such a big miss met, and yet he's got the capacity. Teoh solve some of the major You know, some of the big issues that we're trying to deal with. So how do you get people where they belong to do the work that they're doing that they're capable of doing to me, that this is really important work? So I'm just trying to figure out my next steps so I may be finding my own coach that out. I
Camden: 46:02
know pretty good.
Deborah Huisken: 46:03
Once I thought you might.
Otis: 46:07
That's great and glad we could kind of push you toe to talk about it some or And, you know, because I don't live times, that's what it takes, right? You just gotta talk it out and things start to fall into place. Well, I really appreciate your time today. This has been a lot of fun. And Camden, as much as I hate to Yeah, it's your turn to go first on. So, what did you learn today, Kim?
Camden: 46:34
Something that it's one of those relearned. Definitely. Because I've heard it. Heard it a 1,000,000 different ways and much longer sentences. But Deborah, you said it so perfectly. Just innovation is disruptive. And that's why people resisted as much as we all think we want it. It is a very disruptive Fagan. You have to deal with that change. And I think you just really hit on the head with those three words. Innovation is disrupted.
Deborah Huisken: 46:57
Yeah. Thank you,
Otis: 46:59
Deborah. What'd you
Deborah Huisken: 46:59
learn? Oh, my gosh. I learned that could be my full eccentric self and still make some sense, which is really fun. So thank you for your reply. You learn
Otis: 47:12
well, uh, you know, the gifted lot outlier we've taught you and I have talked about it before, but I just really like that. I like I like the way that you you framed it and defined it as somebody who kind of has that idea and thought and says it and everybody's like Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then, you know, at some time, period Camden, this will not be another one of Camden studies going forward at some time period going forward. Somebody else says it, and it becomes this great idea and how many times it happens to people and and is there, you know, partly personality, partly situation of how did they explain that? How did they deliver that message so that they it doesn't have to wait three weeks for that thing to start getting implemented? That good idea or that, like you're talking about the wrecking ball coming for the boardroom at at is the rest of the team won't get that that that that that information and see it and save it So this has been a lot of fun, Deborah, I really appreciate Ah, you taking some time out of the day and sharing with this and I can't wait. See where dancing Star International human jump to extent how you're going to solve some great problems that are out there.
Deborah Huisken: 48:37
Yeah, that would be great. I'd love to do that. Thank you.
Otis: 48:40
Damned it.
Camden: 48:41
Great John wanted ever. And thank you again for listening today. Show special thanks to our guest, Deborah who skin I did that would write
Deborah Huisken: 48:48
you skin like that, Tony Consistent with a k
Camden: 48:51
who skipped. It's one of those. The more I'm saying that the more I'm thinking, I'm messing myself up, so I'll just move on and our sponsors Militant mash military and athletic strength hemp oil. You can check out recent episodes of the camera notice show on Spotify apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can also get a full archive at the camera notice show dot bus sprout dot com cam shows on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Thanks again.